By Lira Dalangin-Fernandez
INQUIRER.net
Affirming their initial findings, US and Australian experts have ruled out the theory that a bomb caused the explosion at a mall in Makati City where 11 people were killed and scores were injured, Philippine National Police Chief Avelino Razon Jr. said Tuesday.
Razon said the reports by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Australian Federal Police contained findings that would point to the incident at Glorietta 2 last October 19 as an “accidental gas explosion.”
PNP Directorate for Intelligence chief Dante Ferrer said they were expecting the official reports from the US and Australian bomb experts later Tuesday.
Razon said the PNP was finalizing its report on the incident and would likely follow the accident angle.
He said the report would be completed “in a few days.”
Razon added the President has been informed of the report by the foreign experts.
I wonder how Senator Trillanes would react on this. Hanggang ngayun wala pa rin syang ebidensya? If this is true, Trillanes owes us an apology. And a big one at that! Sya ang maging halimbawa ng tunay na oposisyon kung mali ang paratang niya, walang respeto sa sestema at mapanglinlang. Wala pa rin bang ebidensya Trillanes?
Re: “I wonder how Senator Trillanes would react on this.”
I think he will shrug his shoulders and not believe everything Razon says… And I don’t blame him. If you know Razon, then you can’t believe everything he says. He will have a put a slant in favour of Gloria so as not to undermine her more than she’s already being undermined. After all, Sonny Razon was appointed by Gloria and would be the height of stupidity for Razon to add more to Gloria’s mountain of woes.
Sana wag bigyan ng politika ang mga resultang ito. Kung eto ang katotohanan wag nating isumpa agad. And besides the Australian and American investigators act as an independent body at walang hawak si Arroyo sa kanila. Lets condemn the people responsible for this like the management of the Mall at wag din nating kalimutan ang mga taong naghakot ng kaguluhan just to politicize the incedent bago pa man sila makapagbigay ng tulong sa mga biktima…alam nyo na kung sino-sino ang tinutukoy ko. Now if you are all for truth and justice, hindi ba dapat isumpa din natin ang mga tiwaling opisyal na ito? gaya ng pagsumpa natin kay Arroyo. Maawa naman tayo sa mga biktima, they deserve justice, hindi tsismis.
Duren,
Difficult not to inject politics in anything major and dastardly as this or anything that happens in Pinas because the prime contractor for politics in Pinas is Gloria. She is the first to make tsismis.
Much as I would have liked to believe Razon, I don’t and can’t react positively to his declaration because I haven’t read the US-Aussie’s formal findings.
I know Razon personally — he is not beyond saying exaggerations.
“If you know Razon, then you can’t believe everything he says.”
I think Razon is the only one relaying the result to the media. Would you think he will release such news kung wala syang basehan? The American and the Australian government/investigators would negate it instantly kaya hindi pwedeng na inimbento lang.
Duren,
Re: “Would you think he will release such news kung wala syang basehan?” Yes, I think he is perfectly capable of doing that…
Re: The American and the Australian government/investigators would negate it instantly kaya hindi pwedeng na inimbento lang.” Not necessarily. If there’s a negative slant or exaggeration or omission in the reporting of their findings, they would let it go. They wouldn’t want to get caught in the crossfire, particularly not through the press. Have seen this several times.
Iyan na ngang UK DESO, a major UK Ministry of Defence agency was attacked in Pinas in the press for the overpricing of UK govt company — QinetiQ — contracts with Philippine Navy, they didn’t bother (nor British Ambassador) to deny it, iyan pang very sensitive issue na yan?
It depends on the contents of the PNP reports if it is conclusive, but if the report leaves some doubts, a very thorough, independent “inquiry” should be called by either the President or the Congress, not the Senate or any Political body type, but by an inquiry headed by an impartial individual with experts from other fields, like engineers, that will look at the circumstances leading to the explosion, the faulty designs of the storage tanks, or even the electrical systems and submit its findings and recommendations for improvements. This one is to avoid another one if indeed it was caused by gas or others than the “terrorist’s bomb”.
Vic,
Right! Some kind of second opinion. After all, bombs don’t have to come from only one source, “terrorists” as listed by the US State Dept. There are other groups that are perfectly capable of inducing explosions.
I’m prepared to accept the findings if only we could trust that rogue elements from our very own AFP and PNP were not involved in the blast!
Easy, get a second opinion as Vic suggests.
Best is to publish the findings of these foreign experts completely.
Baka naman, may caveat yang findings nila diyan, eg., “No evidence was gathered or Nothing proves that the blast was caused by Al Qaeda or Islamic fundamentalist terrorists”… E kung ganoon, di hindi kumpleto. So the best way is to publish the complete findings para walang duda.
Iyan Duren ang sinasabi kong puweden ma-‘slant’ ang declaration ni Razon… Again, para mawala ang duda, suggest either a second opinion or Razon should publish the complete findings. Hindi ba reasonable naman ang suggestion na ‘yan?
I will only believe when I see the Official reports of the FBI and Australian Federal Police on the Ayala Mall blast(or “Big Fart”).
There is too much spin everywhere !
After all ,to whom does General Razon report to?
The protoccol when there are foreign experts, is that it is the local authorities who will make the announcements. Foreign experts will not usually contradict local announcements, unless it puts them in a bad light. Even then, only the embassies will be able to speak on behalf of the foreign experts. So, yes, it is still possible that Razon would slant the findings.
Agree Klingon.
Kahit anong klaseng imbestigasyon, sabihin nang accident o gawa ng terorista, sarado na sa isip ng marami, ng mga ordinaryong mamamayan, na ang Glorietta bombing ay kagagawan ng nasa Malacanang. Namalengke ako, tinanong yong nagtitinda ng isda kung sino ang may kagagawan ng pagbomba sa Glorietta, ang sagot si goria. Pumunta ako sa banko para kumuha ng konting pera, tinanong ko yong window teller, sino kaya ang may pakana ng bomba sa glorieta, si goria. Punta ako sa SM, nakiusyoso sa National Book store at tumingin tingin sa bagong aklat, tinanong ko ang isang naka barong na lalaki, sino kaya ang may pakana ng bomba sa Glorietta, ang sagot, sino pa eh di si goria. Sumakay ako sa jeepney puntang Quiapo, tanong ko sa driver, sino kaya ang may pakana ng bomba sa Glorietta, sino pa ba? Eh di si goria. Nasa Quiapo ako, tinanong ko yong lola na nagtitinda ng mga herbal medicines sa tabi ng simbahan, sino po ba kaya ang may pakana ng bomba sa Glorietta? Ang nguso, nakaturo papuntang Malacanang.
Maaaring tama ang eksperto ng US at Australia. Tama rin at higit na matalino ang ibang bloggers kaysa sa mga nasa lansangan lamang. Pero sa panahong ito, sa isipan ng marami, ang may kapangyarihan ang may pakana ng pagbomba sa Glorietta.
At naniniwala sila na darating ang araw, tama ang sinasabi ni Sen. Trillanes. Ano nga ba naman ang magagawa ng isang nakakulong? Hindi siya bibigyan ng pagkakataong lumabas sa kulungan upang ilahad ang prueba. Takot sila.
The participation itself of the FBI speaks volumes, as this article indicates
http://www.stratfor.com/products/premium/read_article.php?id=297398
Atty,
That’s what we’d like to rule out or what Stratfor says that there were allegations of “foul play”, hindi ba?
Ok, hindi siguro bomba ang ginamit pero to rule out foul play completely, para sa akin gotta read the official findings ruling out foul play…
duren: if you really want Sen. Trillanes to present his evidences..why don’t you ask and beg the powers be in Malacanang..like we who are for the truth and jsutice asked and still asking, beg and still begging to allow him to do his duties and responsibilities..ano naman ang magtatanong sa iyo..bakit? bakit? bakit? bakit? and a trillion more bakits ayaw siyang palabasin? Did you ask yourself bakit kaya ganyan? o bakit?
Regarding the experts of Aussies and Americans..sila lang ba ang marunong?..ang aussies or americans always tell the truth?..did Bill Clinton tell the truth about Monica Lewinsky? Did Dubya tell the truth about Iraq? ang iisang Americano high profile politician na nagsasabi ng totoo ay si McGreevey na bakla siya..inamin niya..si Oh My Gal so Very? at marami pang sinasabi na my split personality?..bakit duren, bakit ayaw i release si Sen. Trillanes..bata ka ba nga at mukhang malaki ang hangga mo sa mga foreigners…bakit duren? bakit? alam ko ang isasasagot mo ..and why not? Does GMA tell the truth? “Bakit kaya Naulila” bakit sila na ulila? yong mga inosinteng victims..ano ang sagot “according to the experts of Australian and the US, there was an accident”..and my
dear bayad na ang insurance for Ayalas properties..
BTW duren thanks for waking me up..nagising tuloy ako sa mga bakits mo..nagtataka lang ako bakit mainit ang mata mo kay Sen. Trillanes? Don’t tell me my crush ka din sa kanya?
Can’t blame you..pogi siya!
Bakit my “findings” ang FBI? and the Australian experts? Who asked them to do the investigation? bakit sila nakialam..hindi naman sila Filipino..who asked them? the Ayalas? ay ay ay “ala eh! insurance is a business kung terroists act baka hindi bayaran ang insurance…money talks..yon ang ka lagayan ngayon.
Here is more, from three Japanese and one American scientist.
Masyadong mahaba ang link, so here is a quote.
“It is important to grasp the explosion characteristics of object gases: natural gas and methane, in order to evaluate the influence of a gas explosion accident in the HTTR hydrogen production system on the reactor. Thus, we carried out explosion experiments of the object gases in semi-open space, and verified a numerical analysis code for the simulation of the explosion accident. It was confirmed that NG (natural gas)–air mixture or methane-air mixture in semi-open space did not result in DDT (deflagration to detonation transition) although
10 g of C-4 explosive was used as an ignition source,
and the numerical results agreed relatively with the experimental results. As a result, we could have the prospects for predicting the influence of the explosion accident on the reactor.”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V4D-4CRY814-2&_user=10&_coverDate=07%2F31%2F2004&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c41eacdefa09f819c02f7425e8d0e7d8
Rose,
I think government asked for their help and even if govt didn’t easy for them to volunteer their services, particularly when Esperon first screamed that the blast was committed by terrorists. Allergic kasi ang mga Aussies and Americans sa word “Terrorist”, kaya, offer kaagad sila ng services.
Ok sana for them to participate in the investigation. The thing is we want to see their report para walang duda na itong si Razon ay nag ii-slant, i.e., walang rogue elements from AFP PNP na kasama sa blast.
Lalo na may allegations si Trillanes that he has knowledge of who might have committed the blast. Best thing is for govt to come clean completely and show the foreign experts’ report.
“there was allegations of a foul play.” foul as in a foul odor of a gas leak that caused the explosion?..kung foul play that would rule out “accidental” cause of the insurance claim…baka mahirapan sa insurance money..but then again the claimants are the Ayalas…ay ay ay ala! Interesting…lumalabas na ang baho! as in foul odor.
“Foul play” could come mean that while Al Qaeda or its network may not be responsible for the blast, there could be others who were involved, i.e., could be our very own AFP elements.
Not saying this is so but to me, Stratfor could also mean “not ruling out foul play.”
Don’t believe at all that Ayala could be involved in a foul play in Glorietta. Doesn’t make sense.
Ooops, “Not saying this is so but to me, that’s what Stratfor meant by “not ruling out foul play.”
Here is a quote from three Japanese and one American scientist.
It is important to grasp the explosion characteristics of object gases: natural gas and methane, in order to evaluate the influence of a gas explosion accident in the HTTR hydrogen production system on the reactor. Thus, we carried out explosion experiments of the object gases in semi-open space, and verified a numerical analysis code for the simulation of the explosion accident. It was confirmed that NG (natural gas)–air mixture or methane-air mixture in semi-open space did not result in DDT (delfagration to detonation) although 10 g of C-4 explosive was used as an ignition source, and the numerical results agreed relatively with the experimental results. As a result, we could have the prospects for predicting the influence of the explosion accident on the reactor.
Yoshitomo Inaba, Tetsuo Nishiharaa, Mark A. Groethe and Yoshikazu Nitta
Here is the source webpage. I hope it goes through.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V4D-4CRY814-2&_user=10&_coverDate=07%2F31%2F2004&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c41eacdefa09f819c02f7425e8d0e7d8
Tinanong ni Karen Davila and Vic Lima si Razon kanina in a telephone interview over DZMM kung pwede bang mainterview ng media ang FBI and Australian federal police regarding sa findings nila, then ang sabi ni Razon ayaw daw magpainterview ng FBI or ng Australian federal police sa media, or if ever man na pumayag sila dapat daw may takip or hindi ipapakita ang mukha nila. When Karen asked him why, he said mukhang nahihiya daw yung mga foreign experts.
Ang tanong ko naman eh bakit sila mahihiya? hmmmm I smell something fishy talaga.
Just wondering, if the Ayalas would request a copy of the complete findings from the FEDS and the Aussies, will they provide them (Ayala) one???
shivaRN,
What I know is, the FEDS don’t allow their people to be photographed since they wanted their identities to be kept secret as much as possible. So that their safety won’t be compromised in other future investigations. I may be wrong though.
“Kahit anong klaseng imbestigasyon, sabihin nang accident o gawa ng terorista, sarado na sa isip ng marami, ng mga ordinaryong mamamayan, na ang Glorietta bombing ay kagagawan ng nasa Malacanang. Namalengke ako, tinanong yong nagtitinda ng isda kung sino ang may kagagawan ng pagbomba sa Glorietta, ang sagot si goria.” – TurningPoint
Research shows that gossips are more potent than truth. Sayang nga lang at sarado utak ng mga tao. For that there is nothing I can do.
For the sake of transparency, I will wait for the real result at sisiguraduhin natin na galing direkta sa mga investigators ang resulta. Hindi ko naman talaga kasi masisisi yung mga nagdududa lalu kung galing sa hukbo ng gobyerno ang balita.
AdB: I also don’t think the Ayalas would be involved in the foul play. I worked for IL-FGU fresh from college for a number of years and still have contact with my former bosses..and they don’t play foul. If the gov’t asked the help of the Aussies and the Americans..they should allow the public to read the reports..Razon should be transparent..there are many in this blog who are quite knowledgeable about the matter..the only thing I despair of in the gov’t many reports are kept secret and only their words is the report..and if they volunteered their services the reports should also be made public..why can’t they come into the open?
Pero Oras na mapatunayan na may katibayan ang resulta ng imbestigasyon that negates the accusation of Trillanes, dapat lang tayong mag dalawang isip sa kakayahan ng taong ito. Asan na ang ebidensya? Wala pa rin ba?
Ito talagang si Razon, o. Saan ba ito pinulot? Explosives Ordnance experts are not allowed to reveal their identities because they could be kidnapped by terrorists for nefarious purposes. But there is no rule against publishing their findings in full. In fact, the Constitution requires it in the public interest.
Duren, pelase be patient with Senator Trillanes. A senate investigation cannot just be scheduled because there are still several pending ones. Furthermore, he has witnesses who understandably require security of their persons as well as their identities, so these needs must first be addressed.
the statement of Razon that the FBI investigators cover their faces when interviewed is in plain and simple language-baloney! Ano pa naman sila..hindi naman tayo tanga, kahit na kinagawang tanga..I have not naive nor stupid. Mike is right..it is because of their work that their identities be kept secret..
duren: tama ka “gossips are more potent than truth.” kaya nga we have been asking for what justice and the truth..but do we get from the powers be?..katotohanan? transparency? you have your own answers..can you blame the ordinary mamayan kung sarado na ang kanilang isip? sawa na sa kasinungalingan..despair is all they have left..sana hindi..we don’t feel their despair because malayo tayo and kahit naman seguro nang doon tayo..we don’t feel as much a
despair as they do..we really just have to be sensitive to their feelings..be aware of their feelings..madaling sabihin at puede rin nating gawin..in our prayers for them..”bayanihan” nga sa pagdala na ating mga problem..helping one another..not fighting but understanding..and to borrow the words of St. Francis prayer..Lord, make me an instrument of your peace; where there is hatred let me sow love; where there is injury-pardon…and where there is doubt true trust in you.”
“trillion more bakits ayaw siyang palabasin? Did you ask yourself bakit kaya ganyan? o bakit?”
Sa pagkakaalam ko, at sa pagkakaalala ko kasi hindi pa naman ako sobrang matanda na hindi ko matandaan, he is detained for his role in the 2003 Oakwood Mutiny when he and a group of 321 armed solders took over the Oakwood apartment towers in Makati City, lined them with bombs and threatened to demolish them. Naalala nyo na po ba?
“Regarding the experts of Aussies and Americans..sila lang ba ang marunong?..ang aussies or americans always tell the truth?..did Bill Clinton tell the truth about Monica Lewinsky? Did Dubya tell the truth about Iraq?”
Ngayun sinasabi natin na wala na namang credibilidad itong mga ito, pero nung investigation of extrajudicial killings and they contradict the results of the government puro paghanga ang oposisyon at militante. Basta kontra sa atin….lahat mali kasi. Sabi ng lola ko, hindi dapat ganyan. Buti nalang tinuruan ako ng lola ko ng mabuti.
Si Puno Peace Maker? Si GMA, hindi ba piss maker din siya? She extends piss to many….mayroon akong visayan license..sa pagsasalita.. Trick or Treat! medee saan na ang bayong ko na puno na pira..maraming piso ha? Hey Jude: enjoy your lollipop.
Why don’t they just publish the FBI and Aussie report?
If they interview, at takip ang mukha, how do we know it isn’t just some white guy they picked up in Boracay.
Why do I not believe them? Boy who cried wolf na. They have lied too many times. Maybe they are telling the truth now. But just like the boy who cried wolf, it is too late; their credibility has been shot.
This is he bigger issue here. A government earns your trust or scorn. Once one or the other sets in, it is difficult to reverse.
Duren,
May point ka “Ngayun sinasabi natin na wala na namang credibilidad itong mga ito, pero nung investigation of extrajudicial killings and they contradict the results of the government puro paghanga ang oposisyon at militante. ” pero para sa akin, we cannot discount Trillanes’ allegations because he stands accused of committing mutiny and because he was caught planting bombs, etc. in Oakwood.
If at all, siguro because the Oakwood mutiny were involved with planting bombs that Trillanes should be given the benefit of the doubt that he knows who might have been involved in the “foul play” in Glorietta blast. Kakaunti lang na tao naman from AFP or police elements ang experts diyan so very easy to go about by process of eliminating.
In the same manner, I’ve given and am giving government the benefit of the doubt when Razon says that blast was not caused by a bomb, why can’t govt just completely be open and show the reports to the public, i.e., ok no bomb but what about foul play by rogue elements of the AFP? Para walang duda.
As for Trillanes showing evidence of his accusation that he knew who might have been involved in the blast, I agree that he cannot do it from the confines of his cell for the simple reason that he doesn’t believe this govt has credibility not to to distort whatever evidence he may present and so he is right; he should present evidence either in hall of Senate or short of that to an independent commission.
Hindi naman mahirap ibigay iyang request ni Trillanes, hindi ba? Eto nga Gloria can commit hocus pocus, one minute found guilty si Erap, the next minute, pardoned kaagad in spite of overwhelming opposition by both pro and anti Erap, bakit di puwedeng gawin ni Gloria ang request ni Trillanes?
Kung ang sasabihin mo naman na ang justice ang may kaslalanan kung bakit si Trillanes hindi makapunta sa Senate to make his privilege speech, lalong magkakandaloko tayo because I for one believe there is no longer a viable justice system in Pinas….ayayayay!
10/29/07
klingon,
You are wondering where gloria got Razon. Cheaters, liars, murderers, kidnappers. They don’t run out of those kinds of people in Pinas. Who can afford to pay these people. Only gloria. Birds of the same feather flock together. The only solution is to take down Esperon, then gloria will be crippled. Then the Pinoys will see results. Who ordered the investigation on the bombings? If it is the Philippine government forget it. If the Aussies and U.S. investigators, who is going to pay them. It is all about money and power.
Off topic:
shivaRN
I sent you email regarding your birth certificate and other documents mentioned in an earlier thread.
Bakit si kuya nakalaya, at ang kanyang mga kapatid na “Magdalo” nakakulong, Iba talaga ang nahalik sa P#^%*. Kung luluhod kaya si Sen. Trillanes kay Gloriang Baliw. Tiyak laya na rin siya, walang pinag iba kay erap sana mali ang aking inisip. Kakahiya lang si erap kay FPJ.
duren: I sure remember 2003..pero may namatay ba sa Oakwood? may nabombahan ba? they took over..yes..threatened yes- mayroon nangyari ba..hindi ba may nag negotiate with them and mayroon mga pangako sa kanila..Cimatu, was the Chief of Staff then, and Max Soliven was one of those present..did the government discuss with them the reforms that they presented?..hindi..they were detained..that was their reward for “trusting” and the heavy price..this is for this reason that GMA and her administration should present to all the truth and the justice they deserve. If they are guilty fine..let them rot in prison..if not not for heaven sake! let them out..”ibon man may layang lumipad, kulungin mo at umiiyak..bayan pa kaya?” Bakit? Ang tanong ko lang sa iyo..may namatay ba sa Oakwood? May na sira? mayroon! the credibility of Gory and Co..And since then, the country is suffering..don’t you feel this? you are working abroad, right? Japan? You are blessed in being far..in a distance..but be sensitive to the feelings of people..I know you do!
Rose,
To complete your post, Duren must know that part of negotiated agreement in 2003 with Magdalo for them to surrender was that Magdalo would be charged under Articles of War, i.e., military laws and tried in a Court Martial but government two-timed the Magdalos and hauled them off to civilian courts… paano nga naman magkakaroon ng trust itong si Trillanes kay Gloria when even her own military emissary ay ginawa pa ni Gloria na double crosser?
So, I agree with Trillanes NOT TO TRUST Gloria and her cabal of people, lalo na si Sonny Razon!
My love for my country..and my love for Antique (there shall my home ever be- and home is where my heart is) is not diminish the least bit simply because I am far. distance is no barrier. mauli gid takon sa Antique..Peace particularly in the Phil. is what I pray for and one I will pray for in the next two weeks…when I visit the land where the Greastest Peace Maker was born and died for all of us..Shalom!
(Duren, you cannot accuse me of being biased or being too pro-Trillanes because I am one of those who’ve always had reservations about him but in the spirit of fair play and objectivity, these things have to be said, i.e., why Trillanes doesn’t trust Gloria even if he wants to come up with his evidence in the Glorietta blast… na double-cross na siya big time and you know as well as I do that Gloria is not quite someone you can trust.)
I don’t think we should automatically believe the US and Aussie experts. They first have to be able to present a convincing narrative that stands up to science and reason. I believe the government is taking advantage of the unfortunate tendency of Filipinos to look up to foreigners and take their word. That’s an effective kind of spin.
aling rose, sa sinasabi mo na walang namatay, hindi basihan yan para hindi ka iakusa, kaya nga may tinatawag tayo na attempted crimes, attempted murder,attempted rape at kung ano pa. Just a simple analogy…kung ang isang tao ba ay ginapos at nilagyan ng bomba sa katawan tapos tinayaan ang buhay eh mag wawalang kibo nalang pag ito ay nakaligtas? Hahayaan mo nalang ba iyon just for the sake of being sensitive to the feelings of the accused/criminal? Kahit huwaran pa ang rason nila, hindi pa rin tama ang kanilang pamamaraan.
Grabe talaga ang puro depensa ng mga Trillanes fans, hindi ko alam kung ano ba nagawa ng taong ito bakit kailangan syang pagkatiwalaan ng ganito…ah! kasi anti-arroyo sya at tsaka……, ah wala na pala, yun lang, isa lang. Unless he proves his accusations first, at hindi puro chismis at bomba ang ikalat, there is no reason for me to believe that he is a capable and sane legislator.
cvj,
Re “I believe the government is taking advantage of the unfortunate tendency of Filipinos to look up to foreigners and take their word. ”
I have no doubt about that… effectively, the govt thought by heralding the report as coming from the Aussies and the FBI, Filipinos will shut up…
Yes Anna. It’s an unfortunate reality that many Filipinos have a tendency to shut off their critical thinking faculties depending on the nationality of the messenger. I’ve worked long enough with Westerners to know that they are just like us, even the brilliant ones. So it’s useful once in a while to call their bluff.
duren: right you are my dear..”attempted crime”? guilty?
is that the sentence? How long will he be in prison? why was he allowed to be a senatorial candidate? bakit si Honasan? nahuli siya (and to refresh your memory) with his pants down..literally and figuratively..if I remember right the Magdalo Soldiers “surrendered” because a negotiation was done and he sure got a done deal..where is justice? bakit iba ang kay Honasan iba kay Trillanes? Trillanes was just asking for reforms in the military system..is that a crime (attempted or not) to ask that the government and particularly the military should be “like Caesar’s wife be above suspicion”? I say na done deal sila kasi sinabi ni Goria that it should be done and her will be done.! The courts and the judges compared his case to that of Jalosjos..iba ang caso ni Jalosjos..criminal..Trillanes was charged for “conduct unbecoming of an officer and a gentleman…
ang tanong ko : is the conduct of the Chief of Staff Esperon that of a ” an officer and a gentleman” is he really a gentle (?) man (??????). I leave it up to you for your answer..”Lady Justice when equal scales she holds is blind” Lady Justice in the Philippines seems to be dilat na dilat ang mata pero bulag..Many questions regarding truth and justice under this administration are never answered..kung ang nangyayari ngayon is their answer Justice indeed is Dead at sana lumabas ang kanyang multo mamayang gabi.
Tita Rose:
Ang nakikita ni Duren ay ang butas ng karayom, yung butas ng palakol hindi niya makita.
“…US and Australian experts have ruled out the theory that a bomb caused the explosion at a mall in Makati City where 11 people were killed and scores were injured, Philippine National Police Chief Avelino Razon Jr. said Tuesday.”
Why can’t those FBI and Aussie experts say their findings publicly? And why would a guy like Razon (or other GMA lackeys) preempt that statement? Considering the utter lack of credibility on Gloria’s men, the public would rather trust the statement of those foreign experts. For Razon to say that there was no foul play, or whatever, is entirely different from what those foreigners declare in a public statement.
..and duren my dear..ang itinuro sa amin (history na nga seguro) there are three branches in our government for check and balance but not to control..Legislative to make the laws..the Executive to execute the law and to make sure nobody is above the law..and the judiciary to interpret the law..each independent of each other but working together..ano ang nangyayari ngayon the Legislative creates the law for the Executive (the President) and Judiciary interprets the law for the President..and both say..thy will be done..”ohwhatanassiam” then kneel to be knighted.
..I wonder what they teach now?…
tibaklang: oo nga eh..in my old age hindi ko na makikita ang butas ng karayom..pero marunong pa rin akong magtahitahi ng events na nangyayari sa atin.. may butas ba ang palakol? ano sa Bisaya ang palakol? Huwag mong sabihin sa akin na Ilokano ka..Noted but Denied ang sagot ko sa iyo.
sorry na mispell ko ang :tikbalang. nasabi mo kasi ang palakol..I am just reeling with frustrations and disgusts gusto ko nang titibakin (sisibakin) ang pang-gulo..the piss maker awardee…tikbalang is grasshopper?
..pahabol “there is a whale of a difference in credibility.. between GMA and Trillanes: kung baga sa height 4’11 (putot) vs. a seven footer..sa color..puti vs itim..sa yaman sa pera..si Goria and all of us added together…good? or bad?
duren: then don’t believe him. All we are asking here is for the “experts” to publish their reports and allow us to read it “unexpurgated”..matalino din ang marami sa Pilipinos..there are people here in the blog..who knows.. all we ask..the unexpurgated report ng mga Esperts na ito..if Razon can not then to me he is but a “hoaxpert”.
IIsa lang ang dapat natin gawin na mag hintay kung ano ang sasabihin ni Sen. Trillanes sa mga initial finding ng US at Aussie. Hintayin natin ang Final report nila. Gusto ko rin si Sen. Trillanes pero kailangan niya mag paliwanag rin kahit ppaano. Para malaman natin at ikumpara ang kanyang nalalaman sa report ng US/Aussie. Hihintayin ko na lang kung ano ang sasabihin ni Sen. Trillanes kapag mali siya ay talagang kailangan niya humingi ng kapatawaran sa taong bayan.
Remember vojovi, you have the be circumspect too even if Razon (that is if Gloria allows him) publishes the foreign experts’ report and to be alert for caveats, eg, “No evidence that foreign terrorists from Al Qaeda and network was found to be involved in the blast,” meaning other types of “terrorists” could be involved.
But as you say, let’s wait and see indeed before Duren and you(??) and others who are sceptical crucify Trillanes…
From abs-cbnnews
Gas explosion near Paris kills one and hurts dozens
Reuters
PARIS – One person was killed and 42 injured, 15 seriously, in a gas explosion in a building northeast of Paris, emergency officials said on Tuesday.
Police said a fire broke out after an explosion of a gas mains in the center of the suburb of Bondy.
“One person was found dead in the wreckage of the building,” a local authority spokesman said.
He said 42 people had been injured, 15 seriously and three were in an extremely serious condition.
Gilbert Roger, the mayor of Bondy, said that a restaurant and another building had caught fire.
“There was a very strong explosion,” a witness told French radio. “We saw people running. There were enormous flames, several meters high,” he said.
Fire fighters said they were in the process of putting out the fires.
Prime Minister Francois Fillon visited the scene in the early evening.
———————————————————
Apparently, the Philippines operates under different physical laws in a universe of its own. Because here, when methane explodes, it doesn’t matter if its a highly-flammable gas, you won’t see any fire.
Hahahahahahah “Because here, when methane explodes, it doesn’t matter if its a highly-flammable gas, you won’t see any fire.”
AdeBrux Says:
October 31st, 2007 at 3:58 am
But as you say, let’s wait and see indeed before Duren and you(??) and others who are sceptical crucify Trillanes…
Malaki ang respeto ko sa kanya (Sen. Trillanes) ang gusto ko lang malaman at ng iba rito ay ang katotohanan. Kaya nga sabi ko ay mag hihintay ako at ibabase ang sasabihin niya sa report ng US/Aussie. Saka lang ako mag co -comment . Makakapag hintay pa naman ako kahit papaano.
Lahat tayo rito ay hanap ang katotohanan kung ano ang tunay na dahilan sa pag sabog sa Mall at ikinasawi ng ibang tao. Kung mali siya diba dapat siyang humihingi ng patawad sa mga tao at kung tama siya ay lalong lalaki ang respeto ko sa kanya at may pag asa.
Ako ay naniniwala sa kanya ngayon at sana ay hindi siya katulad ng ibang politician na dada lang ng dada dahil tayo ang magiging kawawa sa huli.
Kaya maghihintay ako kung ano ang sasabihin niya.
Huwag kayong mag ala-ala, maliwanag pa sa buwan lalabas
ang katotohanan ang finding ni Kangaroo at ni Eagle pag katapos ng mission dito sa Pinas. Once umuwi yan sa kanilang
bayan lalabas ang ” The Real Truth of Glorietta Bomb Accident” published in a for sale book written by the
investigator.
Ang sa akin lang, bakit hindi nila binibigyan ng chance si Sen. Trillanes. Kung mali. di dagdagan ang parusa niya, kung tama siya…di patay kang Gloria ka!
Are we going to start investigating all over again?
Who is LYING?
Ay, lintik na muhay ng Pinoy! Kawawa na nga…lalo pang kinakawawa ng sariling leader kuno nila!
Blast forensics center on the determination of the blast energy. To do this, the immediate environment, in this case, the deformations in the structures for example the floor immediately above the diesel tank, have to be inspected, measured and tested. The structural strength of this concrete slab I would surmise would have been tested in DPWH under ASTM Testing Standards. And so goes for EVERY OTHER telltale evidences left behind in the scene.
Using mathematical computations – from basic algebra to the highly sophisticated differential equations – and using the data from these measurements to fill in the variables, they would come out with the blast energy in terms of its equivalent weight in TNT (e.g., 500 lbs of TNT)
The next step should be determining the source of the blast. This is physics and chemistry at work. All the swab tests, the physical data, including eyewitness accounts are combined to either support or disprove one theory over the other.
The expected end result should be a declaration, for example, that “this fuel mixture accumulated to a level of so many liters in air, ignited by this source, created a blast equivalent to so much tons of TNT, etc”. Anything short of this is unacceptable.
Simply concluding that the blast was caused by accident because no traces of RDX were found will not quell any “tsismis”, as Duren calls it, that the blast was intentional.
To make your own “educated” analysis, the web offers a lot of info. You can start by checking the blogs of DJB/Rizalist/GodSaveDConstitution’s, Jester-in-exile’s, or mine, where you can find more layman explanations of the theories before you proceed to Gexcon, Harvard’s Brenner, etc.
It’s about time we let the liars know we are not just going to believe everything they are saying. It’s also important that Sen. Trillanes now be allowed to produce his evidence before they publish an incomplete report. Yeah, then Ayala will have to publish its own findings, too.
The official report’s credibility will always be suspect, that’s expected. In the end, what the public wil choose to believe will be sustained. It may not necessarily be the truth and that is the sad part.
But that is always the inevitable result when liars govern.
The investigator on this case must take a great care during their on-scene investigative phase so as to preserve the building with minimal disturbance to allow for a subsequent and thorough investigation by other interested parties. The internal scene examination likewise, systematically eliminated several theories leading investigators to focus on the areas of the building.Through witness interviews, forensic scene examination and scientific laboratory testing of samples taken at the scene, before the investigators were able to determine that the likely cause of the blast was due to a high explosion
I am not convinced that methane gas was a possible cause of the explosion.There was no smell of gas odor to the building where the explosion originated. If there had been a methane gas leak in Glorieta, it would have had to bypass a significant number of other ignition sources prior to entering the engine room area such as a careless smokers who threw their lighted cigarettes, engine backfiring from the exhaust pipes, In addition, at no time did residents or business employers in the area, report any smelling odor associated with natural gas.
To conclude that methane cause the explosion, immediately after the explosion and in the ensuing days, various meters should be used to record and identify hazardous materials in the air and in order to determine if other gaseous vapors were present. Also, there must be some dust collection samples systems in operation within the building. Had combustion occurred that cause the explosion within either the engine room and other area,.The probability that the dust collection system played any role in the primary explosion. As all of the diesel fuel inside the tanks were substantially heavier than air, had vapors from these tanks ignited which I am doubt, then more obvious and visible signs of that explosion would have been observed, heaving of the tanks, heaving of the ground, beveling of the foundation wall along near the tanks,fires,heavy black smoke etc.. Since there was no physical damage from what I’ve seen on the picture, I am going to turn my attention away from this theory and reserve to alter my opinion when there is a final investigation report from a reliable source.
Teka, teka. The court records sa Magdalo hearings indicate na walang mapatunayan yung prosecution na may bomba nga sa Oakwood. Siguradong, sigurado ako dito kasi nung last hearing sa court martial, ayaw nang ipakita ni Col. Pete Davila yung mga kinompile na ebidensiya nila kasi kasama dun yung court records na nag-indicate na wala yung bombs sa inventory na ginawa after inaresto na silang lahat. This is the main reason kung bakit pinayagan mag bail lahat ng Magdalo except for Trillanes, Gambala and Maestrecampo. Check niyo yung records sa Branch 148 ng Makati.
Maganda ang pelikula ngayong October 2007 ni Cristina Crisol – Paano maibabalik ang nakaraan?
Bilib ako sa wankata nyan ni Cristina, no muscle. Wa ako ma-say
Pero mukhang mas maganda ang musical na Grease
“Tita Rose:
Ang nakikita ni Duren ay ang butas ng karayom, yung butas ng palakol hindi niya makita.”
Malaki man ang butas o maliit, butas parin yan..kayo pumupuna ng sa palakol, ako naman sa karayom.
Fart ‘methane’ bomb explosion theory does not make sense. This is a wild speculation. Liquid Nitrogen Bomb: Explosives that disappear into thin air. At room temperature, liquid nitrogen boils, expanding like steam to fill a volume 2000 times its liquid state. It explodes in a great cloud of frozen steam and ice-vapor. All the liquid nitrogen literally disappears into thin air. Bomb investigators will find remnants of a violent explosion but absolutely no trace of any explosives.
Bakit may senate hearing na ba ukol dito?
“Baka itong mga puting bomb experts ay galing lang sa Boracay”. Right on! kaya ayaw nilang makunan ng litrato. Niluluto na naman ng Arroyo-Razon team ang Glorietta explosion na ito. Paano namang hindi kaduda duda ang explosion eh alam ng lahat na si tiyanak at Asspweron ay mahilig diyan para makakuha ng anti-terror funds sa kung kanino kanino. Pinagkakakuwartahan nila ang nawawalang buhay ng mga sundalo at mga tao.
Sampot, huwag na kaya nating asahan ang senado sa lahat ng nangyayari sa bansa. Lahat ng inumpisahan nila nitong taong ito ay wala pang natapos ni isa. Yung “Hello Garci” nandiyan pa rin. Yung ZTE bitin na bitin. Mukhang kuwitis lang lahat ang ingay ng senado. Hindi tuloy natin alam kung nababayaran din itong mga senaTONG na ito katulad ng mga TONGressmen. Medyo suave nga lang ang dating. Baka ang banatan diyan ay sino ang gagastusan ni tiyanak sa susunod na eleksyion. Sipsipan ng sipsipan kay tiyanak. Katulad din sa mga korte. Mabibilang mo lang sa daliri mo ang mga Judges na hindi nabibili ng puwesto-to be a Supreme Court Justice. Ang resulta, niluluto ang mga kaso! Hay naku!
Diego, ang mga magagaling na kimiko, malalaman nila kung explosives talaga ang pumutok. Kahit papaano, may residue na naiiwan.
Iyong RDX residue sa Glorietta 2 ay parang nag-laho na. Hindi binigyan ng importansya ng mga pulisya o may nilutong cover-up.
Off topic. Takot na takot ang tiyanak kay Sabit Swingson dahil sa pag-abswelto ni tiyanak kay Erap. Kailangan lang ng “padulas” yan. Malaki ang presyo ng pananahimik ni Sabit! Magkabarkada si Sabit at si Fatso sa sugalan sa Las Vegas! Maraming alam si Sabit! O kaya naman, nagaantay muna si Sabit kung sino naman ang susunod na nasa pwesto. DOON SIYA sasabit ulit! Kaya nga ang pangalan niya ay “sabit”!
Sa palagay ko ay Malacanyang ang may pakana talaga sa pag sabog sa Mall. Inipon nila lahat ng TAE at Baho nila saka nilagay sa Glorietta. Pinag sama sama ang tae nina Gloria, Mike, Bunye, Ermita, Etc. etc. etc.
Malakas iyun talo pa ang C4 sa pag sabog.
Malamang cover-up nga. It is a catch 22. The Ayalas may not get insurance money if lalabas na may explosives. The perpetrators may have cleaned up the place for any more evidences. Malinis gumawa, ika nga.
So, ano ang pinakamainam na gawin?
I therefore conclude that the Physical Laws of Nature does not apply in that confined area of Glorietta… Where were these PNP personnel when the subject of Physics and Chemistry were being taught in their classes? I don’t care if the PNP insist that the FBI and whatever foreign agency found out their septic tank explosion theory is correct. Show us how the foreign agencies’ report came up with such conclusion… without breaking any laws of physics and chemistry… then we will apologize for being dumb.
Imagine the logic of their argument… inspite of the huge damage caused by the explosion, their “failure” to find bomb components, although, initially they found RDX residue (which they now attribute to the cosmetics being sold in the vicinity?), led them immediately to the conclusion that the explosion is from the septic tank’s methane gas … this came after looking very foolish for blaming Ayala for using a rectangular tank for storing diesel which according to them is not according to specification. the public pointed out the impossibility of attributing the gas explosion to the diesel stored in that rectangular tank…
PNP should not hide behind the name of FBI or other foreign agency… show us evidence that, indeed ,septic tank explosion caused such damage in Glorietta and killed 11 persons in the process … PNP report and that of the FBI, for example, should explain in detail how a septic tank gas explosion caused all of these damages… but then again, if these reports do not agree with the Physical Laws of Nature, it will be quite obvious that all of these things are part of a COVER UP… for whom? You know for whom…
The US and Aussie experts naturally would conclude the disaster was accidental. The cleaners ahead of them were very thoughrough with their job then. Those experts may not have gone on board ships that reek with diesel fumes in closed compartments with all those motor sparks and grinders and makeshift switches operating day in and day out. Lenghty lay down in ports, septic tanks are sealed while generating methane gas with the shipboard routine that has no let up. Yet no accidental explosion has ever occurred at all. Fire, yes, little ones but easily snuffed out with extiguishers. To reach the explosive temprature of diesel fumes, a C-4 is needed.
“The US and Aussie experts naturally would conclude the disaster was accidental. The cleaners ahead of them were very thoughrough with their job then.”
That would make a good bedtime story. I’ll tell that to my grandchildren if I can not come up with new interesting stories to tell them. Great imagination, bravo!
“Gossips are more potent than truth”
Horse sense is common sense. Or sound practical judgment. Or something that is totally missing in the Razon analysis of the Glorietta blast.
Here is the Chief Doofus dispensing his wisdom about why no bomb traces
were found (read and weep) :
“The [US] tests are negative because when the US experts arrived at the
blast site, they swabbed the exterior portions or
the portions that were not directly at the center,
or at the seat, of the explosion. . when the PNP
Crime Laboratory personnel conducted their swabs, it
was in the general vicinity of the seat of the
explosion.”
Did you catch that? I had to read that twice to believe it.
E kaya naman pala walang nakitang bomb traces e.
The “experts” were swabbing the WRONG parts of the blast. Mga bobo.
And our Police Chief does not even have the horse sense to point
the swabbers in the RIGHT direction? Mas bobo.
Aba teka.
May tawag dito. Horse shit.
Hindi bobo kaibigan. Brilliant.
Ngayon, mayroon nang veneer of respectability dahil supposedly, hindi partial to anybody ang mga Kano.
Binay wants to get other tests conducted by other entities. The thing is, if the initial facts and samples were already compromised, ano pa ang kalalabasan ng resulta? Compromised din di ba? It is water under the bridge unless Trillanes knows who really made the explosives (if any) and can testify how it was made, planted and detonated and can produce a witness to the whole job! Other than this, puro haka haka lang ang lahat ng ito. The Ayalas want their insurance money so they will pay big to get results favourable to them. The AFP and PNP want to get more anti-terror funds so they may rejoice if the findings will show traces of explosives. Kaya lang kapag nabigyan na ng “boot” ang mangungutong na AFP at PNP by the monied Ayalas, pwede na ring sabihing “gas explosion” na lang. What will give the military more benefit (siempre pera muna) doon sila. Tapos ang usapan!
Do you really believe na hindi partial ang mga kano Atty? Think again!
Sabi ko, supposedly. Yan ang perception, kaya pinangangalandakan ng PNP ang “findings” ng mga Kano.
Cocoy says:
“I am not convinced that methane gas was a possible cause of the explosion.There was no smell of gas odor to the building where the explosion originated.”
Cocoy,
Sabi nga dun sa isang interview ng GMA7 sa mga survivor at rescuers just after the blast, ay sobra daw ang amoy ng pulbura. Yung mga rescuers nga hindi basta makapasok dahil nga daw nasu-suffocate sila. Wala sa interview na nagsabing amoy pusali. Maski review-hin pa nila yung mga video interviews. Dapat kasama sa investigations ang mga testimonies ng mga witnesses sa pagsabog.
So folks, ang mangyayari dito ay parang duon sa 9/11 sa New York. There are more questions unanswered and there could be secrets that have not been revealed, only time can tell. Many scientists, engineers, professors of chemistry, etc have given their analysis, it is left to the public to decide whom to believe.
“The Ayalas may not get insurance money if lalabas na may explosives.”
parasabayan, we are hoping that the high standards of the Ayala Group of Companies (as well as the Zobels) in always doing the right thing under all circumstances will prevail and that they wont be party to a government whitewash; that concern for insurance will not lead it to make a patently myopic decision that will assuredly damage its employees morale, among others.
on the methane gas issue, i put more stock in the ayala property management corp’s diligence in maintaining all ayala properties than in the diligence, if at all, of the police in investigating/concluding that methane was the cause of the explosion. the agcs take pains to do everything right (and has thus minimized involvement in litigation) and thus for me enjoy the presumption of diligence.
also on the question on foreign involvement. how sure are we that these people were given access to untainted evidence? or were given direct access at all to thes cene and evidence? though having said that, i have it from an A-1 source that us secret service were immediately at the scene (they were nearby for some reason) and were able to swab and get samples before a spin could be hatched.
actually, martina, if this happened in a chinese owned mall, i believe the owners would have just gone along with the whitewash in exchange for future favors. so i’m hoping that the zobels will stand fast and continue to do what they have been doing and preaching all along. because it happened in an ayala mall, we may have hope in getting to the bottom of things. the agcs will not go head to head with the govt; it is not the zobels’ way to be contentious and spoil for a fight. but they will quietly let the truth come out. I HOPE.
I drew parallel to 9/11 twin tower collapse to mean that despite differing views from known experts, the authorities simply ignored them and came up with conclusions and reports they wanted the public to believe.
Did you know that the lease holder of the twin towers got $8+ billion of insurance money? He made sure that insurance coverage would include acts of terrorism, Only months before 9/11. Why the towers collapsed, pulverised and steel melted cannot be due to fire alone (from airplane fuel), some experts claim. Same with Glorietta bombing, experts differing opinion would not matter now, except in the bar of public opinion.
Masha.
Three options Ayala Group of Cos. have to consider:
-If Ayala pushes the terrorist angle, I would assume by the same group that blew up many of their Globe cellsites, what will the long-term impact be on its clients if the extortionists are confirmed to have taken their activities against AGC to include urban assets?
-If Ayala accepts the accident angle, how does it reflect on the much-vaunted, decades-old reliability and efficiency of the Group, traits which distinguish them from competition that will carry them through the long haul, notwithstanding the blast’s P100M bill and future expenses on possible damage suits?
-If Ayala provides proof that government agents were behind the blast and the subsequent cover-up/spins for whatever reason that may benefit Gloria or her sub-alterns, are they well-prepared to risk it against this regime in a game of winner-take-all?
Tough choice, isn’t it?
Duren,
Those pseudo experts came out with a conclusion even long before they reached the pump level. Reason why no one reached it till yesterday, it was dangerous. Who said it was dangerous? One needed only a simple flame safety lamp then put blowers to remove toxic gasses if any and submersible pumps to remove any water. These are industrial requirements. They are supposed to go by the books. Unless they are reading another’s bankbook. Want more gossips?
martina,
i urge you to watch (if you havent yet) the documentary “911 in plane site”. also when you have time, read victor ostrovsky’s 1st book (i forget the title) on the mossad. the lease owner of the world trade center is jewish. on same day when towers went down, building 7 of the world trade complex was demolished. witnesses during that day including firemen heard explosions before the towers went down. i have my theories about the whole thing but i have no smoking gun.
TonGuE-tWisTeD,
the agcs will do its utmost best to prevent this thing from happening again. the zobels consider human life and safety paramount. the trust in the brand is not taken lightly and will of course also help guide their decisions.
if it does accept the accident theory, then i think it will do its best to satisfy all claims and concerns and reform the way apmc operates. but i really doubt they will accept this theory.
tough balancing act on the 3rd one especially since they deal with the govt on many levels. there will be no fiery speeches though if ever, just a reliance on solid and/or scientific reports.
And there was also the pneumonia scare to kill time. Time enough to reroute findings.
Good observations, Val.
How I wish I were brave enough to remove my cloak of anonimity and point to a very similar sewage handling system as Ayalas to prove that it was not possible to accumulate that amount of methane to create such a blast.
kinakamusta ko lang ang ating mga bomb experts na sina sen trillanes, ellen, at ang ating mga bloggers/engineers/bomb experts. sabi ng us bomb EXPERTS (wak kayo alala alam kong mas expert kayo, experto sa pang gugugulo ng mga utak, hehehehe) nag alay na ba kayo ng dasal para sa mga namatay sa glorietta? napulitika kasi sila dahil sa inyo. i bet, walang aamin sa kasalanan nyo. parang tulad nyo lang din si gloria na pinag didiskitahan nyo. BAGO KAYO HUMUSGA SA DUMI NG IBA, TUMINGIN MUNA KAYO SA SALAMIN. baka mas malala pa pala ang ginagawa nyo sa pilipinas kaysa sa ginagawa ni gloria.
Knives,
I am only putting things understandable by fifth graders. I am sure Duren’s kids will be smarter if he tells more of my true gossips. Besides, those aussies and other experts that you believe did not do their homeworks well. No one believes them at all. Do you?
mas matalino ang tao pag nag side xia sa inyo tapos kapag hindi kayo parehas ng analysis eh mangmang na xia? galing naman. para pala kayong mga perpektong nilalang, lahat ng sinasabi nyo ay tama at dapat paniwalaan. ang gusto ko ay pumunta ka dun, at mangolekta ka ng ebidensya. o kaya, mag debate kayo ng US experts tungkol dun.
knives,
may kopya ka na ba ng report ng mga amerikano? ano ba ang sinasabi ng report? baka ang pinagbabasihan mo ay ang sinasabi lang ni barias ha.
may report na ang experts ng ALI. nag pa interview na at malinaw ang basehan. yung israeli, australian at amerikano, wala pang report na ipinapakita. baka meron ka. share naman.
Well, well, I am glad the police have now second thoughts. I guess they are on the fifth grade level now. They are reading this blog afterall.